This is the third part of a four part series all about a documentary and memoir, both called The Horseboy.
Both chronicle, though in very different ways, Isaacson's family adventure story as he, his wife, Kristin, and son, Rowan, go to Mongolia in order to meet some shaman. Rupert wants the shaman to try their healing work on Rowan since Rowan has autism.
Rupert and the director of the documentary, who I interviewed here for part one, both went out of their way to avoid - with marketing, with their work - to suggest they were seeking or found a "cure" for Rowan's autism. Instead, the question was whether the shamans can do something to make it easier for Rowan to do every day activities like playing with others or using the bathroom.
Part two was my interview with Rowan's mother, who sometimes refers to herself as "the sane one." She took a lot of convincing - more than a year in fact - to be talked into going on the trip.
Part four - which is at least a few weeks away - will be a review of the book. I have made a point of not starting the book until after I finish writing up the interviews so as to avoid confusion between what was said in the movie, from what they told me in person, versus told me by email.
I did a 3 hour interview with Rupert and Kristin but then lost all my notes when my apartment was burglarized. They agreed to let me re-interview them so I can get back some actual quotes on some statements I wanted to preserve in "print."
And so..
the interview....
Scott: You made a great comment which I would hate losing that boiled the trip down to the most basic elements, namely the symptoms Rowan had when he left that were gone when he returned. Can you either name them again or try to recall what you were saying
Rupert: Sure. Rowan went to Mongolia with three terrible dysfunctions - still incontinent, subject to neurological fits that resulted in constant tantrums, and cut off from his peers, unable to make friends. He came back with none of those dysfunctions, though he is still autistic. He is now so functional within the autism spectrum that it comes across more as a charming quirk than as a disorder.
You made some comments about being a journalist as a prior job or profession and how that effected you as you told your story both in the documentary (he was also the executive producer) and in writing the memoir regarding not interfering with the story. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Well, I have spent years and years reporting on human rights issues and so on in Africa. So I am not interested in spin, just what happens. You have to be a servant of the story. You report the experience and what you feel about it - that is all. That is how I was trained. So a memoir is another piece of journalism - you simply describe what happened.
Tell me about the irritatometer
No text goes out to my editor until Kristin, reading the drafts on the couch, ceases to sigh with irritation. Once those sighs stop, I know the text is ready to show.
How many books have you now written, Rupert?
I have written a bunch of guide books to Africa and India in my time. Not sure if those count. But I wrote a book called The Healing Land about my time with the San, or Bushmen and how they harnessed their shamanic process to help win their land back - you can type The Healing Land into Amazon and it'll come up. Also I wrote a book about man's relationship with hunting called The Wild Host - History and Meaning of the Hunt. Again, a quick Amazon search would bring it up.
What do you think it is about nature and/or animals that helps autistic people relax and progress?
Most kids with PDD/NOS (the new form of autism) seem to have an over-active nervous system. Being in nature calms this down. Man-made environments (especially strip lights, loud echo-y spaces etc - like supermarkets and school gyms/hallways) often trigger neurological meltdown.
So being in nature for prolonged periods calms the neurology down and enables the child to learn without trauma. The animals seem to help with both sensory integration and communication. No one quite knows why but the results are very clear.
Was most of the $1 million book advance used to start the New Trails Center? What is the center's purpose and how has it been going since it was opened?
Yes, it was - starting the center was frighteningly expensive. We also started a trust for Rowan in later life. The purpose of the center is to offer time with animals, nature and horses to both special needs kids and their neuro-typical siblings. We don't charge for our services - its all by donation - because many families can't afford regular hippotherapy/therapeutic riding programs. you can have a look at the place at www.horseboyfoundation.org
What has the reaction been from the autism community to the book?
The Autism Society of America have been super supportive and we've had a lot of letters and emails from parents in similar situations who thought outside the box. It is nice to feel that kind of community around you as the experience of being an autism parent can sometimes be pretty isolating.
What has been Rowan's reaction to being in a movie and book?
Just straight-forward interest in the adventure and enjoyment of seeing his story. I think re-living his experience has been a therapy of a kind too - helping with perspective-taking. Basically, he enjoys it.
How do you think growing up in South Africa has affected your take on working with/helping Rowan? There's the obvious part of making the connection with the bushmen, but what about the culture, history, or vast changes in politics in the past 20 years that may brought about "personal development/insight" that turned you into the great father that you are?"
Ah. Well, South Africans are notoriously crazy people. In fact, adventure there is considered very normal in a way that it isn't here. South Africa is an extreme kind of place - in terms of the nature and so on. But really it was my working with hunter gatherer tribes down there as a human rights worker and then being exposed to their traditional healing techniques that for sure made me realize that this kind of medicine is an option and makes a nice compliment (not alternative) to western therapies - meaning that i can and do pursue both
My family was political - my mom was basically in exile as an anti-apartheid activist, so social justice down there is kind of in my blood.
And didn't you say you were banned from South Africa because of your human rights work there?
No, banned from Botswana (neighbouring country) for helping the san, or bushmen, win the title to their land - the central kalahari game reserve (52,000 sq kms) after they'd been illegally evicted to make way for diamond mines. It was while taking these bushmen from Botswana to the UN, State Dept and Congressional Human Rights Caucus that they met Rowan.
They/we eventually won the case in 2006, the year before i went out to Mongolia with Rowan. Once the victory was secured the Botswana govt banned me and 16 other human rights workers and journalists from entering the country again
How has it been dealing with the media? I think you guys said you did some kind of a media blitz - like 20 programs in five hours - what was that like? Have you noticed differences in coverage of the book from American publishers vs those of other countries?
In America there has been a greater focus on the shamanic part of the journey - it has been controversial. Some think we're full of BS, some think there's validity. Some people who have not yet read the book or seen the film assumed that we abandoned western medicine which is not the case at all. Rowan had all kinds of orthodox bio-med and behavioural therapies and is still in a therapy called ABA.
Once they do actually read or see it they tend to be reassured that we're not extremists. In other countries I think complimentary medicine is more accepted and the shamanism side of the story has sparked curiosity but not hostility. That said, the American media have also been wonderful - for example, Dr Sanjay Gupta at CNN took a very interesting look at the effects of hippotherapy when he interviewed us, as did CBS's news team.
Lastly, what questions do you wish interviewers would ask but they never do?
How do the shamans say their healing works?
Did you notice a change in Rowan's overall happiness?
Does adventure bring you closer a family?
Both chronicle, though in very different ways, Isaacson's family adventure story as he, his wife, Kristin, and son, Rowan, go to Mongolia in order to meet some shaman. Rupert wants the shaman to try their healing work on Rowan since Rowan has autism.
Rupert and the director of the documentary, who I interviewed here for part one, both went out of their way to avoid - with marketing, with their work - to suggest they were seeking or found a "cure" for Rowan's autism. Instead, the question was whether the shamans can do something to make it easier for Rowan to do every day activities like playing with others or using the bathroom.
Part two was my interview with Rowan's mother, who sometimes refers to herself as "the sane one." She took a lot of convincing - more than a year in fact - to be talked into going on the trip.
Part four - which is at least a few weeks away - will be a review of the book. I have made a point of not starting the book until after I finish writing up the interviews so as to avoid confusion between what was said in the movie, from what they told me in person, versus told me by email.
I did a 3 hour interview with Rupert and Kristin but then lost all my notes when my apartment was burglarized. They agreed to let me re-interview them so I can get back some actual quotes on some statements I wanted to preserve in "print."
And so..
the interview....
Scott: You made a great comment which I would hate losing that boiled the trip down to the most basic elements, namely the symptoms Rowan had when he left that were gone when he returned. Can you either name them again or try to recall what you were saying
Rupert: Sure. Rowan went to Mongolia with three terrible dysfunctions - still incontinent, subject to neurological fits that resulted in constant tantrums, and cut off from his peers, unable to make friends. He came back with none of those dysfunctions, though he is still autistic. He is now so functional within the autism spectrum that it comes across more as a charming quirk than as a disorder.
You made some comments about being a journalist as a prior job or profession and how that effected you as you told your story both in the documentary (he was also the executive producer) and in writing the memoir regarding not interfering with the story. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Well, I have spent years and years reporting on human rights issues and so on in Africa. So I am not interested in spin, just what happens. You have to be a servant of the story. You report the experience and what you feel about it - that is all. That is how I was trained. So a memoir is another piece of journalism - you simply describe what happened.
Tell me about the irritatometer
No text goes out to my editor until Kristin, reading the drafts on the couch, ceases to sigh with irritation. Once those sighs stop, I know the text is ready to show.
How many books have you now written, Rupert?
I have written a bunch of guide books to Africa and India in my time. Not sure if those count. But I wrote a book called The Healing Land about my time with the San, or Bushmen and how they harnessed their shamanic process to help win their land back - you can type The Healing Land into Amazon and it'll come up. Also I wrote a book about man's relationship with hunting called The Wild Host - History and Meaning of the Hunt. Again, a quick Amazon search would bring it up.
What do you think it is about nature and/or animals that helps autistic people relax and progress?
Most kids with PDD/NOS (the new form of autism) seem to have an over-active nervous system. Being in nature calms this down. Man-made environments (especially strip lights, loud echo-y spaces etc - like supermarkets and school gyms/hallways) often trigger neurological meltdown.
So being in nature for prolonged periods calms the neurology down and enables the child to learn without trauma. The animals seem to help with both sensory integration and communication. No one quite knows why but the results are very clear.
Was most of the $1 million book advance used to start the New Trails Center? What is the center's purpose and how has it been going since it was opened?
Yes, it was - starting the center was frighteningly expensive. We also started a trust for Rowan in later life. The purpose of the center is to offer time with animals, nature and horses to both special needs kids and their neuro-typical siblings. We don't charge for our services - its all by donation - because many families can't afford regular hippotherapy/therapeutic riding programs. you can have a look at the place at www.horseboyfoundation.org
What has the reaction been from the autism community to the book?
The Autism Society of America have been super supportive and we've had a lot of letters and emails from parents in similar situations who thought outside the box. It is nice to feel that kind of community around you as the experience of being an autism parent can sometimes be pretty isolating.
What has been Rowan's reaction to being in a movie and book?
Just straight-forward interest in the adventure and enjoyment of seeing his story. I think re-living his experience has been a therapy of a kind too - helping with perspective-taking. Basically, he enjoys it.
How do you think growing up in South Africa has affected your take on working with/helping Rowan? There's the obvious part of making the connection with the bushmen, but what about the culture, history, or vast changes in politics in the past 20 years that may brought about "personal development/insight" that turned you into the great father that you are?"
Ah. Well, South Africans are notoriously crazy people. In fact, adventure there is considered very normal in a way that it isn't here. South Africa is an extreme kind of place - in terms of the nature and so on. But really it was my working with hunter gatherer tribes down there as a human rights worker and then being exposed to their traditional healing techniques that for sure made me realize that this kind of medicine is an option and makes a nice compliment (not alternative) to western therapies - meaning that i can and do pursue both
My family was political - my mom was basically in exile as an anti-apartheid activist, so social justice down there is kind of in my blood.
And didn't you say you were banned from South Africa because of your human rights work there?
No, banned from Botswana (neighbouring country) for helping the san, or bushmen, win the title to their land - the central kalahari game reserve (52,000 sq kms) after they'd been illegally evicted to make way for diamond mines. It was while taking these bushmen from Botswana to the UN, State Dept and Congressional Human Rights Caucus that they met Rowan.
They/we eventually won the case in 2006, the year before i went out to Mongolia with Rowan. Once the victory was secured the Botswana govt banned me and 16 other human rights workers and journalists from entering the country again
How has it been dealing with the media? I think you guys said you did some kind of a media blitz - like 20 programs in five hours - what was that like? Have you noticed differences in coverage of the book from American publishers vs those of other countries?
In America there has been a greater focus on the shamanic part of the journey - it has been controversial. Some think we're full of BS, some think there's validity. Some people who have not yet read the book or seen the film assumed that we abandoned western medicine which is not the case at all. Rowan had all kinds of orthodox bio-med and behavioural therapies and is still in a therapy called ABA.
Once they do actually read or see it they tend to be reassured that we're not extremists. In other countries I think complimentary medicine is more accepted and the shamanism side of the story has sparked curiosity but not hostility. That said, the American media have also been wonderful - for example, Dr Sanjay Gupta at CNN took a very interesting look at the effects of hippotherapy when he interviewed us, as did CBS's news team.
Lastly, what questions do you wish interviewers would ask but they never do?
How do the shamans say their healing works?
Did you notice a change in Rowan's overall happiness?
Does adventure bring you closer a family?
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